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 What to do for motivation?

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lKKlShugo
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PostSubject: What to do for motivation?   Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:57 pm

I know updates are slow and guild activity has been on the low side, but it's kinda hard to run a guild when members aren't motivated. So what do you guys want to see in the future for this guild? I know I ask this question a lot, but I never really get some direct answers. If you can, ask some of the in-game people. Aggressor items used to work pretty well but only a few people play (not to mention it's pretty inactive nowadays). And if you must, you can say cash. I don't mind paying a little money if that's what gets this guild going, but if you're only in this guild for cash prizes then I don't think you're in the right guild. I hope KK can be back to its glory days!

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PostSubject: Re: What to do for motivation?   Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:58 pm

Before I start, I'd like to say 2 things.
1) Grand chase is horrible now or at least NAGC.
2) KK will never go back to its true glory days maybe something close but never what we once had.

Ooh, nvm i think thats enough.

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PostSubject: Re: What to do for motivation?   Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:18 am


Hmm, never indeed, too much change has already happened that pretty much makes the game suck.
i still say if some people could just be a little more enthusiastic about things...

Or maybe that's it. How about something that challeneges the guild?

Truthfully, and though. I don't want to admit it, KK is dead. What good are leaders and events if there's nobody to actually do them with nobody to lead?

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PostSubject: Re: What to do for motivation?   Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:04 am

I think I cover most issues.

Cash :D
Spoiler:
 

No promotion for events
Spoiler:
 

Who is in charge here?
Spoiler:
 

Depleting member pool
Spoiler:
 
As Jashiin said
Jashiin wrote:
What good are leaders and events if there's nobody to actually do them with nobody to lead?

The natural process of losing guildies will always occur, but we are not adding to the guildie numbers. (see my diagram to help explain)

Spoiler:
 

Any solutions? No
Spoiler:
 

Closing notes
Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: What to do for motivation?   Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:10 am

More communication is needed between you 3 guys.
*insert massive reasoning here*
Lazy win.
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PostSubject: Re: What to do for motivation?   Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:27 am

Yes it is lack of leadership, but there are many other factors that fracture good leadership, and one of those factors in this situation, is lack of membership.
The blame isn't entirely leadership fault, because we are trying our best to get the guild back up, don't you see? Why do you think we keep asking questions and hold a meeting in the park?
The lack of dedication and support of members can also cause a leader's morale to depliniish. With no member taking up their duty to help support leaders, then a leader can barely do anything themself

I've tried everything i could think, shugo tried everything he could think of, kiddo can barely do anything as well, and it mostly comes from the side of members not trying to do anything.

As far as the events go, we already placed notice that you as a member need to check the forum to keep yourself up to date, and if you as a member really wanted to support the guild and help the leaders do a good job, then one thing some of you guys can do it stress the forum situation to the others who only play inngame and choose not to visit the forum at all. Leaders can only make few changes to provide the members, but members got to yake it upon themselves to take what was given.

Sometimes you may look at something and go "oh, this isn't very appealing" and then not look at it, but if you as an individual were to just say "hmm maybe i'll give it a shot" and then try to convince others to do the same would be a great deal of help.

Thats prett much what i mean by when i said when members aren't there to do anything. I wasn't talking about the quantity of members, i was talking about the members actually doing something, taking their resources, and the more members to do that will follo better leadership, i promis you that.

Yeah people come and go, but when you recruit and you just seem "meh" about it, then of course other people are to just go "meh" as well. That's why members also have to pick up a duty themselves to support the guild.

It's like a sport, you have a team, you have a coach, then you have the players. Coach is trying to coach you on a direction, and now it's the player's duty to follow. The coach can only do so much but provide you, coach can't make you do anything, it's your choice. So when team mates don't show up, it's not the coach's responsibility to track them down, it's up to the team mates to rely on each other to keep a good team,

Maybe you should try looking at it from a leader's perspective.

edit

Oh you say we have lack of communication when we really don't. Our form of communication is right here on these forums under your noses. No not pmsing, it's a page of the guild that only administrator's can see, and thats where we try to form our plans for our next action.
you can call it a behind the scenes page i guess.

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PostSubject: Re: What to do for motivation?   Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:03 am

For the communication part. Who is lKKlPride then? Were you all party to that?
If this communication is so good, why did you not explain who lKKlPride was in your post? You also need to communicate with us…I made the post days ago and no one has bothered to give a reason.
You saw that my revealing of lKKlPride undermining the leadership in-game being an issue and it seems like concerns have been ignored. He doesn’t even meet the most basic requirement I would have of a random-not-even-an-officer of at least logging on for at least 1 second every day (is it that hard?). Even my only dangerous rival G Point-wise still managed to log on every day with a broken laptop (curse my resourceful rival). Also note in the screenshot lKKlPride’s description…that really inspires confidence…or something.
Spoiler:
 

The members perceived to not be doing their part? I think I can help show you why.
Now Sci sadly stepped down from leading KK back in the 1st/2nd July 2011 (depending on timezones for me it was the 2nd but in the default forum time it was the 1st). You guys then took over and only began your first event16th November 2011 which was roughly 137 days or basically 4 & 1/2 months of nothing for the guild members. At a time when it was probably crucial that you showed us all how the new leadership would be a good thing in order to keep members. Sadly this also meant you missed the summer vacation (a period when more people were looking to join guilds) and started up events around school time when everypony had a lot less time. This period of nothingness led to that inertia I hopefully mentioned in my previous rant.

Ironically I actually held a (unofficial) KK event before you guys even did on the 9th October 2011 and an incredible amount of people turned up for that making it a great success (if I am honest you as leaders should have been organizing alongside an event to mark Sci's departure and your rise to leadership, but I digress). Unfortunately searching my past posts is not quite as easy as it used to due to certain circumstances so I can't find my screenshot (another issue I won't bring up). So you can't blame the members, they are amazing people and a few even downloaded vent again especially for this event to make it so great. The reason why so many people turned was not because I organised a super great event with hack-like rewards because I actually don't think by itself the event could be any good. The reason was because I did everything to inform others of the event through IMs, grand chase, social media and the forum. I would actually talk to guild people about the event. I had the disadvantage of not being an official event and so could not have the vent log in message promoting it or offer guild rewards, but I still managed to have possibly the best attended event in recent times (sorry, but this is true). I was really passionate about the event and thankfully others cared enough/were motivated enough/whatever to join, if I had been unenthusiastic about my event saying how I never use vent and no one else uses it anymore (sound familiar?) then no one would bother taking part. After vent was closing people stopped logging on so this was pretty likely. What this actually means is that if the event did not work it would have been my entire fault for not showing that enthusiasm and if the event was a success it was all down the guildies. Confused? Basically lack of enthusiasm=restraining force and enthusiasm=enabling force, but ultimately the motivation of the guildies will also prevail as my event demonstrated.

Now another reason why our member pool may be low is because of the GC forum guild thread. It took up until the 13th December 2011 for you guys to set up the KK guild thread (copying and pasting the guild info and banners) and Sci marked the original thread as dead and left the 2nd July 2011 as mentioned earlier. During this surprisingly lengthy (twss Laughing ) period the KK guild thread was marked as finished so no one looking at guilds would even bother clicking a disbanded guild's thread. That isn’t everything with the guild thread sadly…on March 12th 2011 we had a member apply there and no one to this day has even bothered the poor person! The guild application is also lacking Rufus & Rin so who would join that guild?

As leaders you can be a tad oppressive towards those who have a different opinion (I am so screwed for making this entire post). One lovely little example is the hostility towards the initial growth of the more active “brony” members, which led to censorship of the word “pony” and not allowing the posting of such topics. As I understand it a lot of places on internet initially try similar things so this is not an isolated thing. Still it was going towards abuse of power and managing to make KK a very uncomfortable and hostile place for all to be in. Then you decide to go all dictator on us back in the 29th October 2011 where you make a delightful post making it clear you should not be questioned and anyone who even thinks against you will meet the firing squad. I still use that link to demonstrate the level of oppression that was going on at the time (hence why I am using it again now and have a copy saved just in case it is deleted). I believe you even let NyrinTriball co-pen this nice bit of evidence who isn't even an officer, but still has a bit of power to pull some strings clearly.

KK isn’t as big as it used to be so it has to be a more closely knit family-type guild. Look at our most recent addition to guild who said “I am looking for a guild that function as a family close to one another and get to know each other more while helping the needy”. Can you honestly say your “patching things up” thread while doing anything/getting rid of anyone you please helps inspire this? I am avoiding the obvious thing I could bring up related to this because that would be breaking the rules of that “patching things up” thread, but there were some pretty good things I could include there.
How can you expect a guild person to be active and take part in member recruitment when things are so cold like that? For me things turned considerably frosty and how can anyone take part for guild rewards when you could be kicked out and lose it all so quickly (helping me form the “vulture shop” concept). I mean it is literally so bad that I feel like posting observations backed up with links on this thread is still a massive risk and I have to be careful what I type. I am pretty fearless though (most of the time) so thought I should show you all what you may have missed. I had wanted to start this post with “Dear Princess Celestia” and end in “Your faithful student Twilight Sparkle” because it fits in nicely with Twilight Sparkle writing details of what she has learnt to the leader of equestrian, but that would probably receive hostility…
You may retort something like “we need to make sure the members listen to us since we are in charge”. You have to understand that nopony is perfect and some decisions/actions may have been done in haste or badly executed and member’s input can be really useful. I also question if an unelected power should ever be making decisions while completely excluding the members. The very members you say aren’t doing enough in recruitment/activeness. Take this quote you may be familiar with.
“I'll have you know that I prefer honey to vinegar. And I prefer witty repartee to any condiment!”

Now maybe you are onto something with the members lacking motivation, but can you at least see why this may have come about? I am not even sure you can reverse some damage since that first impression period is over.

Disclaimer:
Once again I am saying “leaders” when it may not completely apply to all 3 of you. However naming names would be too personal and also gains nothing so it is much better this way.

Any solutions?
Only makes decisions as a 3, never leave 1 or 2 leaders out of the decision making process. Maybe even involve officers or even....members (how2opress this way?)
Possibly get in someone new to help you out.
lKKlPride...nuff said.


Last edited by Twilight Sparkle on Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: What to do for motivation?   Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:38 am

Thanks to an actual explanation from Gentix I have heard a long and strange story involving name changes and stuff. From what I understand the current officer lKKlReborn was an account made by Kiddo to get the IGN "Fujino" after Muffin changed away from it. When this new "Fujino" account became lKKlReborn Kiddo's actual account changed IGN to lKKlHaseo and eventually to lKKlPride. Which would mean Kiddo was both an officer and a leader. o.o I have also been told that lKKlPride is NOT Kiddo leading back to my initial complaint...
Shugo complains about members not writing their new IGNs, but it seems at least one of the leader's isn't typing theirs.

I have no idea if that is even right, but I seem to recall Kiddo earning a high amount of G Points in the past and he definately had more than 104 points. Then again with all the nickname changes going on who can tell anymore.


Then I checked the rules and member list and found that 2 out of 3 leader's names weren't even listed correctly. That is also bad. -_-
http://kingdomknights.forummotion.com/t13-rules-and-member-list
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PostSubject: Re: What to do for motivation?   Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:16 am

well maby we could try a diffrent game pack it up and move you know i mean i just find GC boring i mean it's just gone so blah i've got back to WoW becuse it's so boring and i got nothing to do in my free time i've been so bored i updated a dead rpg thread just to past time well i've said my 2 cents for what it's worth
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PostSubject: Re: What to do for motivation?   Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:10 pm

I will not lie that I am 100% lazy and I have failed my part of being 1 of the leaders since I don't truly enjoy GC has I had once did but if need too, I will step my game and take 100% control as the other two are A LOT busier then I.

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PostSubject: Re: What to do for motivation?   Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:31 pm

As I have said, the fault isn't entirely lack of leadership but also lack of membership. This also mean members arent entirely yhe ones to be blamed either, i hoped that was clear when i stated.
but when I said that I'm sying that everyone is at fualt, and here you bring things of that has happened that wasn't even of my knowledge, which to me is lack of communication between member and leader because it seems you would rather keep us in the dark about how you guys really feel, and so long as that keeps up we will never know our errors to fix the problems we face. We are trying to appease with you, but you won't tell us how. Our decisions is based on what we see and what w know, if we don't anything thats wrong with the members, we cannot provide the help to fix the problem.
i apologize that I cannot always be here, and also apologizing on behalf of the other 2 since we're a trio, all our actions reflects on each other. But at least let this be known that we are trying, and should be enough to let you know we want to work with you to keep the guild from going under, which means so long as you have the want to not let the guild just die out so discipacably, then you and everyone else who feels the same has a part to do in order to help.
from what i'm saying is that if you truly want to support us and the guild, then you have to gather your guildmates and stress it to them that forums are important. all recorded information and best place for communication is here, be it public or private.
sure it was mostly copy and paste, but deadlines were to be met and we didn't entirely have the time to sit and write, but something had to be done. And if the three of us has to find the time to keep on comming up to do norhing but work for the guild, the least you could do is just stress that you and your guildmates must post ever so often as just once a week, which should only just take five minutes of your time
as well as, I do not remember everything being a huge problem about the word censorship, as it was fixed right away. And what other time can you truly say it's just an abuse of power? there's really no power for us to abuse as we hold no power over any of you, the only power we possess is provision, and who said we reject ponies? Ok, i may not be all mister super hqppy enthusiastic sunshine about mlp, but that does not mean 8lm gonna prosecute those who are that come into the guild.
i really honestly do not see why you can't trust us in what we say and do. If something was truly of your concern, why is it that you must be so fearful to just tell one of us so we can make further investigations to fix a problem?
But anyway, let me go back to the point that we can make this happen if you trust in us,, so long as you do that means it is on your side to help us see if we are making poor judgment, because us a leaders are onlyy 3 people, which means we only have 3 stand points of view or preference, so if you see that we are about to make a mistake don't just stand there and take it, talk and make change, that's all i ask of you guys as members to do your part to support and help the guild, which really is nothing much to what we have to do.
we can make this work if you believe it can, then do everything you can to help. Just keeping things shut up will never help anything grow.

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PostSubject: Re: What to do for motivation?   Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:57 pm

Although the other leaders have already said this:
I am sorry.
Yes, saying this doesn't change the situation and those words are often spat around like it's a simple "hi," but I really mean it this time. I am a very busy person, yes, but if I were truly dedicated to this guild I should've been able to make time. Sci was able to do this to a point, and I have the utmost respect for him because as many saw, it worn him out to the point of giving up leadership. But that was what I feared. I didn't want to dedicate too much into the guild that I'd slack off on my schoolwork, but it went to a point that I simply acted as another member instead of a leader. That is my fault, and I realize I should've have put off my loyalty to this guild like that. I thought occasional updates were enough, but I know you guys need someone to always be there, not someone that pops in once in a while. I even posted saying I'll be active in GC every day and I haven't exactly follow through with that. Now I know I can't guarantee I'll be active, but I'm trying my best.
Now Shady has stated that it's not only the members' fault or only the leaders' fault, it's both of ours. Yes, there's a lack of communication between the leaders, but it wasn't always like that. This happened because for 1) We can't simply just call up each other and be "Hey, did you post this yet?" or "Did you finish creating this or that?" No, we use this very forum to talk. Yes, this becomes a problem, but you have to understand that communication involving all 3 people can be hard. As for the lKKlPride issue, I don't even know who that is. This may have been my fault for not being active, but the decision to choose who becomes leader has never really been a consensus between all 3 leaders. Even the "the leaders are oppressor" issue is not very evident to me because I wasn't there at the time of the incident.
What I want from the guild is simply a way to get to you guys. I've had chats with James and maybe only him about the situation of the guild. No one else has come up to me telling me about the problems of the guild. Well [just as Shady said] if you don't come up to me or any of the leaders about the problems, whether this be on the forums or in-game then how are we to know what to do besides what we see? "Help us help you." The only one I've seen do this is James. Yes, I understand it could be that you guys are busy as I've been busy, but even a little talk or message like, "I'm worried about the guild" can mean a lot. I've asked in multiple threads what the members wanted but I don't really get a straightforward response. And mainly it's fro mthe same 1~2 people.
I really don't like how this situation has developed but I guess this is how we're going to get things done.
Yes, there are flaws. Yes, we have problems. But the leaders can't fix them alone.

Edit: A few things to mention.
1) Who is lKKlPride? I think I deserve to know.
2) @James - Yes, the memberlist is old. I didn't even realize about the my name until you pointed it out. My fault for not prioritizing this.
3) As for GC is boring, I don't seem to think so. I hope future updates will light your spirits up a bit. For now I'm playing around with Playhouse and participating in the filler events.
4) For IM communication, I can't keep up Skype w/ GC. [Curse you sucky laptop!] And I use the free time I have on GC. Until I cna get a better computer, your best bet in communicating is through the forum posts or PMs. [I check this forum everyday so PM is your best bet.]

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PostSubject: Re: What to do for motivation?   Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:20 am

lKKlPride, My newest ign.

I wanted to play a prank on everyone with the ign changes but I guess it was taken the wrong way.

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PostSubject: Re: What to do for motivation?   Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:24 am

Oh and one more thing.
that post that seemed like it wqs "dictatorship" it really meant not to be in that fashion, but it's more so that we all came to the same conclusion that had to be done, and sometimes there are just certain (though this is very few) topics and situations that shouldn't be brought up because it may involve personal mattrs. About that, meaning that pretty much if our decission was on something personal then it shouldn't be questioned unless the problem it was happening to decides to tell you why themselves, it's simply more so a matter of giving other human beings the right to privacy.
however we did mean it to say that you are not meant to question us ever, or rather the fashion that you do should be in a different manner, because confronation with anger will cause problems to escalate more then they needed to be. Always try to take a calmer, respectful approach no matter what "status" a person may have, cause we're still people just like you.
thats what that whole post was meant to be abou. Not to never correct us on what we do, because we may make errors along the wqy, that's how we're suppose to get better. And this also means that if the situation is what's going to affect the guild as a whole and not just few individuals, then it is alwqys open for constructive, respectful criticism from another stand point so that together any situation can be viewed almost omniscent(from all directions) which can affect decisions to go better planned.

As well as my situation and your "rival's" situation, our situations are 2 completely different. But even so, i still do find my ways to try and contribute my self to the guild. Even though Gc may seem to be trying to give my laptop a virus, even if my laptop's circuit burns out, this forum ain't going anywhere, so i can still help from a distance if not directly using my wii, eds, qnd even my phone for the internet usage to try and check on the forum as much as i can at almost any time i can doing so, which is why we need to get the rest of you using the forums cause it's a very vital usage for communication amongst leaders, leader and member, and amongst members themselves. This forum is the focal point and all source of KK news and information. If one does not come and check it ever so often, then they maybe leading themselves to thougts of false situations, and the whole "wasn't informed" business can come to an end.

Alright, I am done completely unless anyone else has a say so an in need of a response.

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PostSubject: Re: What to do for motivation?   Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:54 am

I've been thinking about all of this for the past few days, but I really can't come up with anything to help get activity up. I'll try to be more active, and hopefully others will do the same as well. I've just been a tad busy of late.
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PostSubject: Re: What to do for motivation?   Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:24 am

The censoring of the word "pony" was an issue from what I remember. Ask some of the other pony people that were around at the time.

I think the hostility towards ponies mostly died down after that initial flare when it all started back in like October.

Sorry Reborn about the ign thing, but even leaders didn't know. :/

Since getting banned the way things went down all that time ago I am probably more sensitive to the negative aspects. It seemed so unfair the reasons told to me like using a personal reason from over a year ago and saying I annoy people...
I am sorry, but because of that I simply cannot help much. Way to heavily scarred from that.

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PostSubject: Re: What to do for motivation?   Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:01 pm

*Not doing Trixie-speak at the moment.* If I could, I would get on GC more often, but since I'm at a college that prevents me from playing online games, I can't do much.
If anyone needs my help in any areas other than online gaming, I'll do my best to assist.
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Jashiin

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Location : Top of Kingdom Kinghts' Castle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbx_MdchsY0

PostSubject: Re: What to do for motivation?   Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:17 pm


@James
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So, if we were to shift to another game, or branch off to another game, we will need to know that game off the back of our hand so it could be easier to make the new challenges, activities, and events so that KK could work successfully with this game should we choose to do that. Which also means that if we find that we lost passion for GC that we can't just play for fun like we used to, then that means a lot of things that we already have would need to go under construction to rebuild from what we scrapped up, which would require a lot of thought which = time consumption.

If we really are to going to make that a decision that everyone will agree on, then I guess I have somewhat of a plan of how we should approach it. But that's only if we all agree that this may be the best action for us to take.

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Twilight Sparkle
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PostSubject: Re: What to do for motivation?   Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:46 am

@Jashiin
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Agreeing on a new game between everyone seems impossible. XD

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